Details Ticket 2637


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Serial Number 2637
Subject (better) implementation of Spatial Models
Area wish
Queue grass
Requestors wegmann@biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de
Owner none
Status open
Last User Contact Mon Sep 27 15:26:34 2004 (4 yr ago)
Current Priority 30
Final Priority 70
Due No date assigned
Last Action Mon Sep 27 16:03:48 2004 (4 yr ago)
Created Mon Sep 27 13:53:26 2004 (4 yr ago)

Transaction History Ticket 2637


Mon, Sep 27 2004 13:53:26    Request created by guest  
Subject: (better) implementation of Spatial Models

Platform: GNU/Linux/i386 
grass obtained from: Trento Italy site 
grass binary for platform: Compiled from Sources 
 
It would be great if spatial prediction models like Environmental Envelope, 
ANN, Generalized Additive Models (GAM), Tree etc. would be implemented in GRASS
and  
could be used straight forward using a bunch of commands.   
   
At the moment a few can be used e.g. GRASP (GAM) via R but this approach is quite
cumbersome. (http://www.cscf.ch/grasp/)  
  
More infos concerning the different models can be found in these papers (pdf
download at  
http://ecospat.unil.ch/index.pl/publications):  
   
Guisan, A. & Zimmermann, N.E. 2000. Predictive habitat distribution models in
ecology.  
Ecol. Modelling 135(2-3): 147-186.   
  
Guisan, A., Edwards, T.C. and Hastie, T. 2002. Generalized linear and generalized
additive  
models in studies of species distributions: setting the scene. Ecol. Modelling
157(2-3):  
89-100  
)  
  
thanks Martin  
Mon, Sep 27 2004 15:26:34    Mail sent by Roger.Bivand@nhh.no  
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From Roger Bivand <Roger.Bivand@nhh.no>
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Subject Re: [GRASS5] [bug #2637] (grass) (better) implementation of Spatial Models
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Martin:

This is not a bug. GRASPER is quite sophisticated and involved a lot of 
hard work. Any data analysis involves a lot of data collection, data 
cleaning, and then analysis (with lots of possible alternatives to choose 
between). Nobody, not even the big proprietary GIS provide 
point-and-click analysis - and I would not trust their results if they 
did. If you choose to contribute dressed-up TclTk interfaces to scripts 
for GRASPER etc., feel free, but I think you'll find that you are into at 
least a 10K lines project just to start with. The bottom line is on Frank 
Harrell's "Can one be a good data analyst without being a half-good 
programmer? The short answer to that is,`No.' The long answer to that is, 
`No.'" 

(http://www.georeference.org/Forums/random-quotes/view-random-quotes.asp)

which means scripting anyway.

Roger Bivand


On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Request Tracker wrote:

> this bug's URL: http://intevation.de/rt/webrt?serial_num=2637
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: (better) implementation of Spatial Models
> 
> Platform: GNU/Linux/i386 
> grass obtained from: Trento Italy site 
> grass binary for platform: Compiled from Sources 
>  
> It would be great if spatial prediction models like Environmental Envelope,
> ANN, Generalized Additive Models (GAM), Tree etc. would be implemented in GRASS
and  
> could be used straight forward using a bunch of commands.   
>    
> At the moment a few can be used e.g. GRASP (GAM) via R but this approach is
quite  
> cumbersome. (http://www.cscf.ch/grasp/)  
>   
> More infos concerning the different models can be found in these papers (pdf
download at  
> http://ecospat.unil.ch/index.pl/publications):  
>    
> Guisan, A. & Zimmermann, N.E. 2000. Predictive habitat distribution models
in ecology.  
> Ecol. Modelling 135(2-3): 147-186.   
>   
> Guisan, A., Edwards, T.C. and Hastie, T. 2002. Generalized linear and generalized
additive  
> models in studies of species distributions: setting the scene. Ecol. Modelling
157(2-3):  
> 89-100  
> )  
>   
> thanks Martin  
> 
> -------------------------------------------- Managed by Request Tracker
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grass5 mailing list
> grass5@grass.itc.it
> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grass5
> 

-- 
Roger Bivand
Economic Geography Section, Department of Economics, Norwegian School of
Economics and Business Administration, Breiviksveien 40, N-5045 Bergen,
Norway. voice: +47 55 95 93 55; fax +47 55 95 93 93
e-mail: Roger.Bivand@nhh.no


Mon, Sep 27 2004 16:03:48    Mail sent by wegmann@biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de  
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Date Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:07:25 +0200
From Martin Wegmann <wegmann@biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de>
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To Request Tracker <grass-bugs@intevation.de>
Subject Re: [bug #2637] (grass) (better) implementation of Spatial
References <20040927132634.C9008102BF3@lists.intevation.de>
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Hello,

sorry, it was rather as "wish" than a "bug"  report -- must have mixed 
up the menus.

Concerning GRASPER, I did not intend to say that this program is not 
sophisticated and I know that a lot of work has been put into this 
program, sorry if you got me wrong.

However I was rather interested to simplify the data exchange e.g. 
import of raster data into GRASPER (equivalent to the prediction map 
export from GRASPER to GRASS).
 
Simplifying data exchange by implementing various spatial prediction 
models in GRASS should not result in a point-and-click analysis (via 
GUI) or a one-command-does-all process at all, but would drop the 
tedious import-export routine.

and finally conerning scripting: I am on the way to learn it ,-)

cheers Martin


Request Tracker wrote:

>Martin:
>
>This is not a bug. GRASPER is quite sophisticated and involved a lot of 
>hard work. Any data analysis involves a lot of data collection, data 
>cleaning, and then analysis (with lots of possible alternatives to choose 
>between). Nobody, not even the big proprietary GIS provide 
>point-and-click analysis - and I would not trust their results if they 
>did. If you choose to contribute dressed-up TclTk interfaces to scripts 
>for GRASPER etc., feel free, but I think you'll find that you are into at 
>least a 10K lines project just to start with. The bottom line is on Frank 
>Harrell's "Can one be a good data analyst without being a half-good 
>programmer? The short answer to that is,`No.' The long answer to that is, 
>`No.'" 
>
>(http://www.georeference.org/Forums/random-quotes/view-random-quotes.asp)
>
>which means scripting anyway.
>
>Roger Bivand
>
>
>On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Request Tracker wrote:
>
>  
>
>>this bug's URL: http://intevation.de/rt/webrt?serial_num=2637
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Subject: (better) implementation of Spatial Models
>>
>>Platform: GNU/Linux/i386 
>>grass obtained from: Trento Italy site 
>>grass binary for platform: Compiled from Sources 
>> 
>>It would be great if spatial prediction models like Environmental Envelope,
>>ANN, Generalized Additive Models (GAM), Tree etc. would be implemented in GRASS
and  
>>could be used straight forward using a bunch of commands.   
>>   
>>At the moment a few can be used e.g. GRASP (GAM) via R but this approach is
quite  
>>cumbersome. (http://www.cscf.ch/grasp/)  
>>  
>>More infos concerning the different models can be found in these papers (pdf
download at  
>>http://ecospat.unil.ch/index.pl/publications):  
>>   
>>Guisan, A. & Zimmermann, N.E. 2000. Predictive habitat distribution models
in ecology.  
>>Ecol. Modelling 135(2-3): 147-186.   
>>  
>>Guisan, A., Edwards, T.C. and Hastie, T. 2002. Generalized linear and generalized
additive  
>>models in studies of species distributions: setting the scene. Ecol. Modelling
157(2-3):  
>>89-100  
>>)  
>>  
>>thanks Martin  
>>
>>-------------------------------------------- Managed by Request Tracker
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>grass5 mailing list
>>grass5@grass.itc.it
>>http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grass5
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>


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